eller: iron ball (Default)
[personal profile] eller
This was prompted by being asked by a friend to stay on the phone with her while she walked to the station. I gladly did so (to be polite), but... Well, if she thinks this made her safer in any way, she's just wrong. XD I've taken this occasion to compile the weirdest, most useless, and in some cases even counterproductive advices I've ever received about "self-defense for women".

Let's begin this with a short disclaimer: I'm not a self-defense instructor and this is not to be taken as instruction. Also: I'm not against self-defense. At all. It's just that I would want my self-defense to work. And, by the way, that does not necessarily mean beat up the bad guy. (That's not something a woman should attempt against a man. Unless she's trained and/or has considerable fighting experience and he isn't, that's just not going to work. Biology sucks.) It means surviving the situation. And "advice" that decreases the chances of survival is, as far as I'm concerned, bad advice.

1. Stay on the phone with someone when you're out late at night.

... why? WHY? Seriously, what the fuck is that supposed to achieve? Is that person supposed to call the cops for you when you are being attacked? Guess what - that other person does not even have the exact location you're at. Your phone has that if you do the emergency call yourself - which you can actually do faster when you're not on the phone with someone else at the time.

Also, if the cops are called successfully, what do you think is going to happen? Okay, if you're in a rich part of town, they'll maybe show up within ten minutes or so, so if you survive the assault that long, that may be some help. By all means, pressing the emergency button can't hurt! If, however, you are in areas like Hamburg-Harburg or Bremen-Gröpelingen... The cops are much too afraid to actively interfere in anything that's going down there. I mean, I get it. The local gangsters are better armed and better trained - and if, against all odds, the cops manage to win a fight and arrest anyone anyway, and the guy so much as stubs a toe while being arrested, they'll automatically be sued by well-meaning idiot activists from the rich parts of town (which means they, very conveniently, never have to interact personally with the kind of gangsters they hold candlelight vigils for) for "police brutality"... I wouldn't want to do the job under those conditions, either. Anyway. They'll arrive after three hours to take "witness statements" and pretend surprise when there are zero witnesses to be found. (And if it's about getting a description: no, "my friend is being attacked somewhere on the Veddel by someone in a dark jacket and white sneakers" is not nearly as helpful as you think...) Meanwhile, that doesn't solve your more immediate problem of being attacked.

Besides, if you had not been on the fucking phone the whole fucking time, you might have heard earlier that someone was walking up to you... Dulling one of my most important senses is generally not what I'd want to do in a place where I have a reason to worry I might be jumped.

Getting help is a good idea, actually, but you'll get more... immediate... results if you just SCREAM and hope that anyone who hears you isn't a friend of your assailant.

2. Don't be out late at night.

This one is... technically true, I guess, but also really fucking evil. Women have the right to move outside in public space, and this is merely victim-blaming disguised as well-meaning advice. If you want to have any kind of normal life, this shit is neither possible nor acceptable in any way.

3. Carry a weapon [knife, gun, whatever the go-to item in your culture happens to be] in your handbag/purse.

There is SOOOOO much wrong with this statement! As far as I'm concerned, I'd consider carrying a classical ladies' purse (as opposed to, you know, a real bag or backpack for when you actually have stuff to transport that's not only your keys and wallet) the first mistake made. These things admittedly look nicer than bulky jacket pockets, but also...
- they incapacitate one of your arms
- if they are expensive (which is the only point of having one: to show you can afford luxury) they add an extra motivation to rob you
- they provide your assailant a tool to choke / strangle you with (especially if it's already conveniently half around your neck)

Plus, of course... I think I've already mentioned (several times) that knives are actually really shitty for self-defense. (Yes, I own knives. Do I think of them in terms of contributing to my personal safety? FUCK NO.) If they are weapons at all (which mine are not), they are attack-only weapons. (Most efficient if the person doesn't even know they are in a fight until they just got stabbed... Like... I'm sitting on the ground? Why am I sitting on the ground?) And I really fucking hope you're not planing to attack random strangers in the street!

But, all right, let's assume you are very calm under stress and can even think about how to fight this guy. (By the way: unless you are trained, this is already a really dubious assumption! I think the psychological aspects of being attacked with serious intent to do harm are underestimated in all that self-defense advice that's floating around.) He's nice enough to "tell" you (by obvious body language and/or showing his weapon much too early) he's about to attack rather than, you know, just attack. Are you sure you're going to find that item between your tampons and paper wipes and travel chessboards in time? And draw / unfold / otherwise get it in useable condition in time? Congratulations - for that, you're really fucking fast indeed. Then... Are you prepared to use it? Are you trained at that kind of thing? Because otherwise, congratulations, you just brought a weapon for that other person...

4. Keep your keys in your hand. Use them to strike at the eyes.

Sounds lovely in theory, right? Except... WHAT? Yes, a key to the eye is going to cause devastating damage and will disable an attacker (unless he's on meth, in which case all bets are off). The problem is more like... getting it there. And in order to achieve that, you not only have to be able to successfully punch someone significantly larger than you in the face (which is near-impossible), you also have to have that key perfectly oriented and hit a very small target with very high precision. This is the kind of thing... I mean, very theoretically speaking, it's not impossible. But also, it would need a lot of highly specialized training, and the willingness to actively step into the space of someone with more range than you (well... all in or all out, right? XD which isn't always true in the dogmatic sense either - distance management is really fucking complicated, and the ideal place for me to be to knock someone out is, obviously, at the end of my strikes, which is unfortunately indeed inside his range - but, never mind. When in doubt, out is preferable as far as I'm concerned) and leave yourself open. It sounds like a valid last-resort attempt (in the better-than-nothing sense), and sure, keys (like anything that's sharp) can be used as a weapon, but it's far from a reasonable plan. Definitely not my first choice, anyway.

5. Always be wary of strangers in the street.

Paranoia is not a healthy mindset. (Trust me about that. I'm pretty paranoid as far as things go, but if I started thinking like that, I'd need medical attention.) Random strangers you encounter late at night are actually very unlikely to attack you. (Some friendly souls even actively start worrying about your safety and offer to call you a taxi. Yes, I had that happen recently - very touching. XD) And never mind that in most cases that women get physically attacked, it's someone they know. This "stranger danger" business... Yeah, no. Sure, street crime happens, but also, not often enough to have me worried when I'm walking home late. (I'm actually more worried about badly secured flowerpots on people's balconies, because I'm statistically more likely to die from those. Muggings sound scarier, but... Rational risk assessments are funny like that.) The mere fact that a man happens to walk on the same sidewalk as you does not mean he's out to get you. I have to wonder whether this myth is actually deliberate misdirection to distract women from where the main danger to their safety is really coming from.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with being aware of your surroundings. If you feel there's something wrong... There probably is. (Unless you already have a diagnosis of clinical paranoia, in which case, there probably is not.) Gut instinct is incredibly powerful! Obviously, if someone is encroaching on your personal space on an otherwise deserted street, matching their steps to yours, etc., you are under attack - and it's important to realize it (and react accordingly). Men who are just minding their own business without any ill intent will usually have the courtesy to give a lady a wide berth on the sidewalk - or, at the very least, not change their trajectory when you move out of their way! He swerves when you swerve? He accelerates when you accelerate? Then, you know what's happening. (If you scream at him to get away from you - which you should do anyway, even when you already know - you have proof.) The moment this strange guy actually touches you is not the moment the fight starts. That's the moment you (statistically speaking) lost.

6. Take martial arts classes.


I mean, please do! Seriously - something that increases your general fitness and actually lets you practice some moves that could also be used for fighting is not entirely wrong. I like martial arts just fine! Unfortunately, it's kind of double-edged... Of course, a trained martial artist does have a better chance at winning a random street fight than a completely untrained victim! However, most typical martial art "introductory classes" that limit themselves to one or two hours a week for a few months are not going to make anyone a trained martial artist (which takes a lifetime of dedicated practice and matching life philosophy). Such a course won't achieve that. It will give you some nice physical exercises (which, sure, is worth something) but not a fighting mindset to go with it. Worst case, it will just make people think they can handle themself in a real fight. Which is actually a lot worse than knowing you can't do shit in the situation at hand.

The potential issues include
- fighting when it's not appropriate. You have no idea how often kids who took some classes get beaten up because they think they can handle the situation and go into the fight despite having (but not taking) a chance to disengage... Like, why risk your life if you can just give the guy your money to diffuse the situation? Priorities...
- overconfidence when fighting men. Look... There are various factors beyond technique and tactical skill that determine the outcome of a fight: height, weight, reach, circulation/pulse, sugar metabolism in the liver and the muscles, bone density, jaw stability, skull thickness, lung size / oxygen capacity, sheer aggression... And you are likely to be outmatched on every single one of them. That's okay in a sport with safety mechanisms in place (although most combat sports and martial arts, even those where training is mixed, segregate sexes at least in competition... for reasons) but not in an actual fight. Yes, if you can't get out of the situation otherwise, you should fight anyway - in many cases, attackers look for easy victims and give up as soon as there is any kind of resistance / risk of injury and you're "not worth the trouble" - but otherwise, unless you have a pole-arm ready (now, taking something like a halberd or a naginata on a late-night walk would be kind of cool, actually, and incredibly funny, though I don't think they'll let you into a bar with that - not even in North Germany XDD) you are most likely going to lose against any semi-competent male attacker. I don't like this fact, at all, but... it's really as simple as that.
- confusion when the attacker uses moves that are not "legal" in whatever sports discipline you practice, and a tendency to "overthink" these situations
- ingrained habits (like, say, stopping when it looks like your opponent is actually injured) that will fuck you up in a fight... I mean, under stress, people always fall back on whatever they have internalized without conscious memory access that would cost time (which is a useful survival mechanism!) and if you have learned in your sports practice to play fair, to make sure you don't actually hurt the other person, to not break bone, to not kick anyone in the head when they are on the ground... ... ...you are potentially at a disadvantage against someone without these inhibitions who just follows their fighting instinct. Critically so.
- if it was just a short course: lack of muscle memory. You will not consciously remember all this stuff under stress! It really needs to be "second nature". After, say, a three-week course - even assuming an excellent instructor and all that... it won't.

7. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu solves allllllll the problems of smaller people in a fight.


No. I don't doubt its usefulness and do not wish to insult the practitioners at all - it's very impressive, actually - but... No, we won't have big, muscular guys fleeing in terror from their tiny assailants anytime soon.

8. Take him to the ground to neutralize his height advantage.


NO! Unless you're a pro wrestler, mayyybeee... But even then, let's say I'm highly sceptical. Unless you are sure you can win that (which sounds... unlikely, to say the least), you just needlessly threw away your last chance at getting away. (Of course, if you can get the guy to the ground while staying upright yourself, go for it... Problem is, you likely won't, unless he's so out of shape he's basically a human punching bag.)

9. A knee to the groin solves all your problems!

Yes and no. I mean, if you're lucky, it does. If someone just grabbed you, it's definitely something you want to try! Depending on the situation, it may actually be the best option. Just... You really really really don't want to be in a situation where you have to rely on that. It's far from failsafe. (Besides, most professional thugs are smart enough to wear protection there when they're out to rob people. It's not as if this move were new and/or surprising...)

10. Don't fight back, it will just make him hurt you more!

It depends on what your attacker wants! If it's a robbery and your attacker is desperate for cash because he needs his drugs... Then, yes. Fighting is likely going to hurt you more than complying. If it's sexual assault? FUCK NO. Statistically speaking, most would-be rapists are going to give up when they encounter serious resistance. And never mind that most would-be rapists are not random strangers, anyway, and that you'd better practice setting boundaries with your intimate partner(s) and other acquaintances rather than imagine a very unlikely scenario with some unknown guy in the street.

11. Attackers are always alone.

Well... No, especially not the organized ones. (I don't know why "self-defense classes" typically only cover the single-attacker scenario.) In fact, when it comes to situational awareness, my danger radar is much more likely to ping when I see groups of young men lurking in narrow spaces, because that's where (statistically speaking) the danger is.

12. Don't be a victim!

Yes, I'm sure everybody would prefer to, except people don't exactly get a choice about that, do they? Unless this is supposed to imply that someone who "lets" bad things happen to them is somehow at fault. Victim blaming at its finest!

13. There is no "women's self-defense", only "self-defense"!

...and, funnily enough, the only ones who ever claim that are men. It's not only that some specific moves have to be executed somewhat differently, depending on whether a body has boobs and wide hips or not. It's also that, NOPE, men do not routinely have to learn to defend themselves against attackers who are two heads taller than them... Because, unless they are exceptionally small, that's statistically unlikely... But, unfortunately, a more typical problem when you happen to be a woman. Also, the types of attack that male and female victims are subject to - and need to defend against - are substantially different. Yes, men can be sexually assaulted, too (and it sucks), but "how do I break the bones of someone who has a hand down my pants" is not a standard scenario they need to worry about. On the other hand, women are considerably less likely to be attacked with beer mugs and bottles... Trying to pretend there are no differences whatsoever in what people need to learn is not helping anyone!

14. Just run away!


... the fuck? Since when can women out-sprint men? This is obviously not going to work at all! Okay, okay, there are exceptions, like if the assailant is drunk and not even walking properly. But otherwise? Fuck no. Unless you really are a world-class (!) female sprinter, the average, remotely fit, 20-year-old street thug is going to catch you within a few seconds. So... If you see a chance to get to (absolute or relative) safety (your car, a door you can close, any other physical barrier you can use, a random bicycle that's not locked, or even just a position from which it will be easier to fight, like, the literal high ground, something that you can reasonably use as a weapon...) within the next few seconds - go for it! Absolutely, that's worth a sprint! But just running down the street (bonus points: on heels), trying to outrace that thug? ...yeah, no. Only in movies.

That being said... Self-defense is a good thing.

Date: 2025-02-09 04:05 pm (UTC)
franklanguage: animation of christopher walken (Walken In a Winter Wonderland)
From: [personal profile] franklanguage
One time I was followed home and cornered in the vestibule of my building; I was lucky that my sudden scream startled the would-be attacker so much that he turned and ran away. (The building where I currently live has a surveillance system; the building where I lived 30 years ago didn't.)

Another time I was followed by a man in a crowded subway car, and made the rookie mistake of getting off the train and going above ground. The neighborhood was one filled with wholesaler storefronts—busy by day, but deserted at night. I went to a pay phone to call 911—that's how long ago it was—and while I tried to dial he kept pushing the disconnect button and whispering "I love you, I love you" in my ear.

I was saved by my Walkman™, which hung around my neck; he finally got fed up, grabbed it, and ran. Worth every penny.

Date: 2025-02-09 04:40 pm (UTC)
shivver: (drawn oh!)
From: [personal profile] shivver
> Staying on the phone

Being on the phone is also a visual indication to a would-be assailant that you're not paying attention.

> Knee to the groin

In addition to everything you listed, it's an incredible hard shot to actually make. It's a small target, and as my husband has pointed out to me, men spend their entire lives protecting that one area of their bodies. It's really obvious when someone is looking down to aim their kick (unless they're a trained fighter), and twisting the hips away is instinctual.

> Don't be a victim

Omg, this "advice", along with the "carry a weapon" advice, pisses me off. It reminds of when Cheeto won our elections in 2016 and attacks on women and minorities started to increase. My husband said something on Facebook about my being afraid of going outside now, and one of our conservative friends replied, "Don't be upset that we won the election. You should be trying to get along with us. If you're afraid of being attacked, you should get a concealed carry weapon." Eight years later and I'm still frothing about that.

Date: 2025-02-09 08:28 pm (UTC)
castiron: cartoony sketch of owl (Default)
From: [personal profile] castiron
I took aikido classes for a few months, long enough ago that I've long since lost the few skills I was starting to pick up. Which is too bad, because what they taught was something that could save my life -- how to fall safely.

In fact, our teacher told us that this was how his black belt in aikido saved him. Leaving his house in winter, he slipped on an icy step and fell on the stairs. He automatically turned and took the fall in a way that left him with painful bruises but with no serious injury; if he'd fallen on his back he'd likely have received a brain or spinal injury, possibly an immediately fatal one.

(As for attackers, he said "As a black belt, you know what I'd do if I thought I might be in danger from someone? Get the hell out of the area as quickly as safely as possible.")

Date: 2025-02-09 11:17 pm (UTC)
dhampyresa: Paris coat of arms: Gules, on waves of the sea in base a ship in full sail Argent, a chief Azure semé-de-lys Or (fluctuat nec mergitur)
From: [personal profile] dhampyresa
The one thing that's made me feel safe walking around at night was learning women get attacked by people they know vastly more often than by strangers. I've once or twice pretended to get a phonecall and said something along the lines of "yes yes I'm almost here" , but never actually called anyone -- it was probably unnecessary, honestly.

I was at a friend's birthday party recently and left after the last métro and everyone else (including a guy) took a ride-share. About half of them live closer than me. I walked home and honestly had a great time (except for the last 2mn when I got rained on. Paris is beautiful at night.

On the other hand I did one time find a Crusading order so who knows

Date: 2025-02-10 02:51 am (UTC)
light_of_summer: (white-crowned sparrow)
From: [personal profile] light_of_summer
Lots of your opinions here match what I've been taught or otherwise believe to be true. The very first thing my self-defense instructor taught our class was screaming, "NO! GET AWAY FROM ME!" as loud as possible. And she had us practice that, then and there, because apparently a lot of women and girls are socialized not to be loud. Some of the other women in the class really found it hard to yell. I didn't—I had practice in yelling out the next dance figure, over the sound of a small band, when I was a Morris Dancer. 😆

One thing that I don't see you mention is the possibility of carrying a chemical weapon—in your hand, ready to use. For quite a number of years, I carried either tear gas or mace or a mixture of the two. Where I live, and at the time, that was legal if you had taken a one-time, four-hour class to get certified. The class was mostly about learning when it was legal to use it and when it wasn't, why it might not work on some attackers (them being on certain drugs), what to do if you set it off accidentally and gassed yourself or your belongings, plus a little bit of test-firing. I never had to use it. But having it in my hand might have made me walk a little more confidently. Are such things legal where you live?

Re high heels, I personally quit wearing them sometime in college. I consider them to be a source of physiological self-harm and unnecessary risk unless one is using them to ride horses or climb utility poles. (For the record, I am a medium-sized woman. I acknowledge that may make the trade-offs somewhat different for me than for women of other sizes.)

Re learning to fall safely: this makes sense to me, but I have an extra challenge in this area, because I have very little mobility in my lower back, due at least partly to having slightly abnormally-shaped vertebrae. After seeing my x-rays, one of my first chiropractors advised me NOT to study any martial arts that involved falling, because I'd be more likely to get a spinal injury in falling than most people. I did take an extra private lesson in self-defense to practice rolling on mats in ways that did not require me to try to make myself into a C-shape (i.e., rolling sideways). But I'm not sure how much good that did me.

Just in the course of daily life, I've accidentally injured myself by tripping forward three or four times that I can remember. I've known people who might've been able to do forward martial arts rolls out of those kinds of trips, but I'm not one of them, sigh. Results: 1 set of bruises that were treatable at home, 2 emergency room visits that turned out to be just for contusions that cleared up fine, and 1 emergency room visit followed by surgery to stabilize a broken right wrist (distal radius) with a piece of titanium screwed to the bone, followed by physical therapy. I was lucky—I ended up just losing a little bit of mobility in that wrist, but not enough to significantly matter. But it would've been nice to have had a body that could have rolled forward to avoid the broken wrist.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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